Pioneers of Lean- Ohno & Shingo

Strategos: Who really developed the Toyota Production System?

Bodek: I once asked Dr. Shigeo Shingo, "Who really discovered Lean, you or Taiichi Ohno?"  Shingo looked at me and quickly said, "I did, for I was Ohno's teacher."  At a later time I asked an ex-Toyota group manager, Chihiro Nakao, who worked with both Shingo and Ohno a similar question, "Who really discovered Lean, Shingo or Ohno?"  His answer was, "Which came first the chicken or the egg?"

Of course, both Dr. Shingo and Mr. Ohno both played significant roles and it was through their conceptual genius that Lean was born.  

Strategos: What were the key personality characteristics that Shingo and Ohno brought together that provided so much success?

Bodek: They were both like tigers, fiercely aggressive, neither would accept the idea that something could not be done. They gave you the concept and told you to do it.

Ohno would simply say, "I want you to change this warehouse into a machine shop and I want everyone working there to be retrained. I will come back in one year to see it done." He did not tell them how to do it. Ohno had the power, as chairman of Toyota Gosei at the time, and was "ruthless." You had very little choice with him.

Dr. Shingo was also a tiger, but a gentle tiger. He was absolutely brilliant, probably the greatest manufacturing genius of our time, able to solve every manufacturing problem presented to him.

His way was different. He was a teacher. He would help you by asking you questions and encouraging you to experiment. He knew you had the answers within you. He would teach you about waste and give you guidance on how to eliminate that waste.

Strategos: How did Ohno and Shingo arrive at this particular set of elements for their system?

Bodek: Ohno said he learned from three people: Mr. Toyoda who had visited America earlier, Dr. Shingo who was Toyota's primary consultant and teacher, and Henry Ford. Ford was able to build a car in 4 days from iron ore coming out of the ground to the finished product. Ohno then went and found a copy of Henry Ford's book "Today and Tomorrow," and said, "If Ford can do it so can we."

Dr. Shingo was an industrial engineer who studied carefully Frederick Taylor and Frank Gilbreth learning about time and motion studies.

His big breakthrough was to realize the difference between process and operations, process being the total flow of manufacturing from the customer's order to the finished product and operations, a series of machines. By focusing on process he was able to teach us how to smooth out our operations to be more efficient.

Strategos: Would you tell us about Dr. Shingo?

Bodek: To attain the goal of continuous improvement Shingo was relentless in stimulating people to change for the better.  "Can't be done "and " impossible," were not part of his vocabulary. He knew there were many ways to solve problems, like there were many paths to reach the top of Mt. Fuji.

Whenever Dr. Shingo left a client he gave them homework.  Just like at school we need to learn and work afterwards in our quest for competitive excellence.  Dr. Shingo expected his clients to have the work completed before he came back a month later. He didn't want them to waste time and he didn't want them to waste his time. 

Nakao, the principle in Shingijutsu Consulting who worked with Dr. Shingo said, "I was always afraid of Dr. Shingo. He would always leave me homework and he expected me to do it." Dr. Shingo's parting works were, "Do it!"

Strategos: Who was the most colorful personality?

Bodek: Dr. Shingo was the most colorful and the most devoted to helping industry become more efficient. He worked into his eighties; never retired. He knew the increased wealth that would come to the world from the Toyota Production System.

One day he was explaining Baka-yoke, fool-proofing devices, created and implemented by workers on the factory floor. A young woman started to cry. "Why are you crying?" He asked. "Because I am not a fool," she answered. "I am truly sorry." And at that exact moment he changed the name from Baka-yoke to Poka-yoke, mistake-proofing devices.

Strategos: Not everyone makes cars. How did Shingo approach other industries?

Bodek: Every industry has waste. Every industry can change and improve. Lean applies to hospitals, call centers, hotels, everyone who wants to be more competitive.

Strategos: What was Ohno like?

Bodek: Well, Ohno had a reputation of creating fear in others.  He was often called "ruthless" in his desire to drive out waste from the Toyota system. 

One day Ohno walked into one of the large warehouses at Toyota Gosei and said to the staff of managers around him, "Get rid of this warehouse and in one year I will come back and look!   I want to see this warehouse made into a machine shop and I want to see everyone trained as machinists." And sure enough, one year later that building became a machine shop and everyone had been retrained.

Ohno did not tell then how to do it.  He just demanded that they do it. Ohno knew the economic benefits to Lean, knew it wasn't easy to bring change, and was forceful in bringing it forward. 

Another time I was standing inside a factory near Tokyo, in front of a newly purchased automated delivery system. The system allowed an operator to pick out the necessary parts to be delivered to the assembly line.  It was impressive to see the operator and her proficiency using the automated system fulfilling orders.  

A former assistant to Mr. Ohno was standing with a group of the company's managers and he said to me, "Norman, what would Ohno have said about this automated warehouse?"  I said, without thinking, Ohno would have said, "Get rid of it." All the managers looked shocked.  I am sure their minds were buzzing, ?How can we get rid of it?"

Strategos: Ohno seems demanding, arbitrary and difficult. Yet, employee participation is a major source of Toyota's strength. How do you explain the apparent paradox?

Bodek: From what I was told, Ohno was both ruthless and relentless. Toyota needed that kind of energy to go from producing junky cars in 1960 to world's richest automotive company. Toyota was rough on all employees and on all of their suppliers but an employee has never been laid off (no downsizing), a supplier has never gone bankrupt (in fact, each supplier is a leader in their field), and Toyota is able to open new plants in America while we go to China. Toyota also invests in their employees. They want each one to learn and grow.